@katwrimo: ennoeis ti metafora pou ekane o Kubrick sti Lampsi kai o King dilwse, pws auti einai i xeiroteri metafora vivliou tou se tainia?an den kserei o syggrafeas, poios kserei? (asxeta an i tainia einai kali i oxi... ki ston Tolkien mporei na arese)
@Buddy: kalo itane to telos re, pou na to kovane gia na min to traviksoun? pou na to syntomeuane? tha eprepe na mi deiksoun ta gkriza limania tote
Vielen Dank für alles was mal war
den eipa oti den einai kalo.
e as mhn kanane toso arges tis skhnes tou, or something.
YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL. YOU ARE NOT BEAUTIFUL OR UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE. YOU'RE THE SAME DECAYING ORGANIC MATTER AS EVERYTHING ELSE. YOU ARE THE ALL-SINGING, ALL-DANCING CRAP OF THE WORLD.
HIPPIE METAL OR NO METAL AT ALL
Eni: Ksexna ti dilosi tu king (profanos o anthropos den vlepei cinema afu i xeiroteri tenia olon ton epoxon, to children of the corn einai vasismeni se vivlio tou). Esy theoreis oti i lampsi den einai kali tainia i esto oti den steketai sto ipsos tu vivliou?
Katerina: Sorry alla den tha apantiso se ena post tu stil: "les malakies, les malakies les malakies".
Antoni: Oi alages tu jackson einai ousiodeis. Kai oles exun ginei gia na aplopioisun to ergo. Sto vivlio, oloi oi kaloi einai kai ligo kakoi kai oi perissoteroi kakoi einai kai ligo kaloi. Opos diladi einai stin pragmatikotita oi anthropoi. Sto ergo osoi den einai kaloi einai kakoi. Afto prosopika me kseneronei. Stin tainia oloi einai i neutral good, i chaotic evil gia na to theso se orus rpg.
Skepsu to eksis. Sto vivlio to goloum einai ena distixismeno plasma to opoio akrovatei anamesa sto na ginei kalos kai na paraminei kakos. O frodo apo tin ali, apo ti mia einai kalos kai genaios san xaraktiras, apo tin ali endomixa epithimei na kratisei to daxtilidi. Oli afti i esoteriki sigrousi, pu sto vivlio pianei peripu to 1/3 tis istorias, stin tainia exei aplopiithei os eksis:
Golum: kakos, thelei na sfaksei to frodo kai na parei to daxtilidi. Frodo: kalos, thelei na sosei to daxtilidi. Giafto kai i skini pu apofasizei na min to katastrepsei, fenetai afisiki an den exeis diavasei to vivlio.
Genika nomizo oti aplopioiseis tis morfis Kaloi-Kakoi kanun opiadipote tainia pediki. Den ksero an exeis diavasei to vivlio tu fight club, alla fantasu na to diavazes kai meta na evlepes mia tainia stin opoia o brad pitt tha itan o KAKOS kai o Edward Norton KALOS. Den tha ksenerones? Den einai ena apo ta iperoxa simeia tis tainias oti o KALOS einai ena KATHIKI?
Episis gia na einai mia tainia kali prepei na exei kai kalo casting. To casting tou lord of the rings einai apo ipoferto, eos metrio. OK, den iparxei kanenas ithopoios gia ta mpaza, afto to paradexomai alla kai kanenas ithopoios den ksefeugei apo ti metriotita.
Gia olus aftus tus logus nomizo oti to lord of the rings einai mia KALUTSIKI tainia. Kai epidi einai vasismeni se ena teleio senario, o skinithetis einai apotiximenos.
Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.
J. M. Keynes.
Δηλαδή στην ταινία το Γκόλουμ ήταν ανέκαθεν κακό; Δεν αμφιταλλαντευόταν; ...καημένε Σέρκις τσάμπα πήγε η προσπάθειά σου...Golum: kakos, thelei na sfaksei to frodo kai na parei to daxtilidi. Frodo: kalos, thelei na sosei to daxtilidi. Giafto kai i skini pu apofasizei na min to katastrepsei, fenetai afisiki an den exeis diavasei to vivlio.
Ο Φρόντο από την άλλη ποτέ (ούτε στο βιβλίο) δεν ήταν κακός, το δαχτυλίδι ήταν αυτό που τον έκανε αναποφάσιστο... άλλωστε είναι πολύ εμφανές στην ταινία το πάθος του για το δαχτυλίδι.
Όχι η ταινία δεν είναι βασισμένη σε ένα τέλειο σενάριο, το σενάριό της είναι βασισμένο σε ένα τέλειο βιβλίο...Kai epidi einai vasismeni se ena teleio senario, o skinithetis einai apotiximenos.
Πες ότι ως σεναριογράφος είναι αποτυχημένος (νομίζω πως ο Τζάκσον ήταν ένας εκ των τριών σεναριογράφων) αλλά σκηνοθετικά η ταινία είναι εξαιρετική...
(ypo ton kindyno na ginw fangirl, an kai mallon eimai idi :s):
prwton, einai poly dyskolo na anaparageis se mia tainia to feeling enos vivliou. H Lampsi tou Kubrick mporei na einai kali ws tainia, alla ws metafora vivliou den pianei mia. Einai poly dyskolo na metafereis stin othoni ton tropo me ton opoio to ksenodoxeio arxizei na epireazei ton prwtagwnisti kai ton kanei eksallo me ti gynaika tou. Para poly dyskolo. Gi'auto kai yparxoun akoma syggrafeis kai anagnwstes kai to eidos den exei pethanei, giati ta vivlia mas prosferoun akoma alles diastaseis... (sto idio motivo, fantasou to Mullholand Drine se vivlio..... tha exane poly nomizw).
Etsi einai kai me to LotR... px, gia tin allagi tou xaraktira tou Faramir sto TTT, i Boyens eipe: "se olo to ergo prospathoume apegnwsmena na kanoume to theati na katalavei, pws auto to daxtylidi einai kako kai tous epireazei olous. H Galadriel den ithele na to agkiksei, to idio kai o Gandalf kai twra erxetai o Faramir kai leei, akoma kai sto dromo na to evriska de tha to epairna pote.... Auti i frasi tna ta katestrefe ola..." Kapoies allages itan anagkaies, alles oxi. kai otan krinw tin tainia panta skeftomai, pws prwton ti vlepoun kai atoma pou den exoun diavasei ta vivlia (px, itan megali "magkia" na apokaloune ton Gandalf Mithrandir sti Gondor, meta tin tainia me rwtise o filos (pou den exei diavasei ta vivlia), giati ton apokaloune etsi...) kai deuteron pws to koino pou arithmitika tha ti dei perissotero, kalws i kakws, einai to amerikaniko. Kai i tainia exei polla antimainstream stoixeia, alla krataei isoropies.
Kai twra pws mou gia to kast. Poious tha protimouses?
Vielen Dank für alles was mal war
Den exw diavasei megalyterh anakriveia oson afora ton Tolkien. Eisai sigouros oti exeis diavasei to vivlio? Den yparxoun "grizes" perioxes stous xarakthres tou Tolkien. Einai dynaton na einai kai "ligo kalos" o Sauron? Einai dynaton na einai kai "ligo kakos" o Gandalf? Pas kala? Sto Lord of the Rings toulaxiston h monh eksairesh ston katharotato diaxwrismo Kalou kai Kakou einai o Gollum. To Silmarillion exei kai xarakthres san ton Feanor pou exoun megalytero vathos.Sto vivlio, oloi oi kaloi einai kai ligo kakoi kai oi perissoteroi kakoi einai kai ligo kaloi.
H aplopoihsh gia thn opoia kathgoreis ton Jackson einai anapofeukth gia thn metafora enos tetoiou vivliou ston kinhmatografo. Apthn allh omws, mono atoma pou exoun diavasei Tolkien mporoun na apolausoun thn tainia sto megisto ki auto deixnei oti h aplopoihsh exei ginei mono se shmeia pou eprepe na ginei. O Jackson den ekopse oute ta pampolla onomata pou emfanizontai sto vivlio, den isopedose tis politismikes diafores twn fylwn ths Meshs Ghs, oute agnoise ton idiaitero tropo me ton opoio milane oi xarakthres tou Tolkien. Ekane lathi sigoura...alla xanontai mesa sto synoliko katorthoma tou. An nomizeis oti exeis ksanadei kati paromoio me auth thn trilogia wste na mhn theorite katorthoma pes to mas na to doume.
Genika mou fainetai oti den eides katholou prosektika thn taineia. Mono tis skhnes maxhs prosexes? Px den prosekses oti o Jackson se kathe eukairia deixnei posh epirroh exei to Daxtylidi ston Frodo? To telos erxetai fysikotata.
Esy pantws eisai gia zourlomandya. Katarxhn allo to senario kai allo to vivlio sto opoio vasistike to senario. An den mporeis na ksexwriseis akoma auta ta pragmata einai fysiko na mhn katalavaineis thn diafora metaksy enos vivliou kai mias tainias. O Peter Jackson apotyxhmenos, ti allo tha akousoume...Gia olus aftus tus logus nomizo oti to lord of the rings einai mia KALUTSIKI tainia. Kai epidi einai vasismeni se ena teleio senario, o skinithetis einai apotiximenos.
den sinexizo mia sizitisi tis morfis "eisai gia zurlomandia, les malakies".
Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.
J. M. Keynes.
Katse na apanthsw prosexontas polu tis le3eis mou mpas kai den parw ki egw apanthsh meta.
katwrime se mia tainia opws to lotr pou exei 345634 xarakthres kai alla tosa events megalou mege8ous den uparxei h dunatothta na exei polu screen time o ka8enas. Einai logiko na prospa8hsei o skhno8eths na balei osa 8elei mesa alla se liges skhnes kai na elpizei oti o allos pou blepei 8a to piasei. O Gollum pou proaneferes exei tis skhnes tou pou to skeftetai alla den mporeis na perimeneis na ginetai sunexeia prepei na to katalabeis oti etsi einai apo monos sou me auta pou dinei o skhno8eths (kai einai akreta). O Tolkien me 1000+ seldes biblio kai se ka8e kefalaio 20 grammes na elege gia to 8ema den 8a se kouraze oute 8a eixe problhma xwrou na pei thn upoloiph istoria tou. Se mia tainia den ginetai auto.
Ta idia kai gia ton Frodo, fanhke kai auto.
Epishs den dexomai se kamia periptwsh atakes tou stul "paidikh tainia". Ti paei na pei auto? Dhladh mhpws eprepe na pe8anei o Frodo sto telos gia na einai realistikh h tainia? To Lotr einai ena paramu8aki alla einai to gamhemeno to kalutero paramu8aki pou exei ftia3ei nohmwn on kai h tainia metaferei thn atmosfaira autousia, kati pou esu epeidh exases ton xrono sou na psaxneis tis diafores apo to biblio profanws exases.
katwrime, egw de se evrisa, tha parw apantisi?
pes toulaxiston gia tous ithopoious...
Vielen Dank für alles was mal war
Eni exeis dikio giafto apanta.
Lipon sxetika me tous ithopoious oson afora olokliri tin trilogia, anagnorizo oti kaneis ithopoios den einai gia ta mpaza teleios. Parolafta, oi kales erminies einai elaxistes, kai genika to casting tis tenias sozetai mono apo to gegonos oti oi xaraktires se protagonistikus rolus einai kaloutsikoi. Apo kei kai pera, gia na einai mia tainia TAINIARA, prepei na exei kai analogo casting, me ithopoious ikanotitas pano apo to "kalos". Tora mi me vazeis na grapso onomata ithopoion, apla skepsu oti oles oi TENIARES eixan kai foveres erminies. Tulaxiston afto pistevo ego, pu prosopika den mporo na fantasto to Kurdisto Portokali me opoiondipote alo sti thesi tu malcom mc dowel i tis siopis ton amnon me kapion alo sti thesi tu anthony hopkins. Oles oi tenies pu aksizun na apokaluntai klasikes (giati eseis etsi apokalite to LOTR, ego leo oti einai aplos kalutsiko) prepei na exun kai 1-2 erminies pu na einai siglonistikes, opos tu hopkins i tou mc dowell.
Pantos efxaristi ekpliksi stin tainia itan o ithopoios pu epeze ton Boromir. Aftos itan pragmatika poly kalos.
Elpizo na se kalipse i apantisi mu
PS: nikodime, den kathomun na psakso diafores me to vivlio, apla diafono gia to oti einai "aplos ena paramithaki" esto kai to kalitero paramithaki ever. Episis an den eixe xrono na analisei tis tenies MIPOS NA EVAZE KANA SFAKSIMO LIGOTERO???
Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.
J. M. Keynes.
to LotR genika eixe ena provlima: oi perissoteroi ithopoioi tha eprepe na afierwsoun to ligotero ena xrono tis dimiourgikis tous karrieras gia auti tin tainia... ontws oles oi tainiares eixan sygklonistikous ithopoious, mono pou autoi einai kai i koryfi. Omologoumenws apo tous koryfaious auti ti stigmi einai, Pacino, Hoffman, Hopkins klp, klp, klp... katalavaineis. Kanenas apo autous de tha afierwne toso xrono gia ena "paramythi". Opote o Jackson eprepe na epileksei se ligotero diasimous i neous ithopoious (ektos tou oti tha eprepe na tairiazoun kai stous xaraktires). Polloi apo tous ithopoious pou epilexthikan omws einai kataksiwmenoi ithopoioi theatrou (vlepe Ian Holm, Ian McKellan) kai einai adiko na les pws einai metrioi.
eeee, mallon auta.
Vielen Dank für alles was mal war
Typikotath apanthsh otan kapoios den exei epixeirhmata. Agnoises olo to post mou kai dialekses na prosvlitheis anti na apanthseis.den sinexizo mia sizitisi tis morfis "eisai gia zurlomandia, les malakies".
Ναι άλλα είχε δίκιο...Originally Posted by Elfstone
Σε ό,τι αφορά τους ηθοποιούς, προσωπικά έμεινα απόλυτα ικανοποιημένος, κυριώς με τους Ian McKellen (η ερμηνεία του Γκάνταλφ ήταν υπέροχη), Viggo Mortensen (αν και αρχικά δεν μου γέμιζε το μάτι, αποδείχθηκε πολύ καλός), Hugo Weaving (αν και το σενάριο δεν τον βοήθησε στο τρίτο μέρος), Kate Blancet (...), Sean Bean (κάπως έτσι θα φανταζόμουν τον Μπόρομιρ!)...
Οι υπόλοιποι στάθηκαν επάξια στους ρόλους τους και θα χαρακτήριζα τις ερμηνείες τους καλές.
Ο Ellijah αποδείχθηκε ιδανικός Φρόντο, κυρίως στο 3ο μέρος! και μπράβο στο παλικάρι!!!
Και ο Andy Serkis... υποκλίνομαι!
ΥΓ: Οι "σφαγές" έχουν σημαντική θέση και μέσα στο βιβλίο...
"apotyxhmenoi " den einai aytoi pou den kanoun thn "teleia" metafora enos vivliou ston kinhmatografo, alla aytoi pou perimenoun ton kinhmatografo na kseperasei thn logotexnia.
katarxhn otan grafeis ena vivlio mporeis na grapseis 5000 selides kai na diavazei o allos 4 mhnes kai na xei meinei mlk me tis analyseis kai tis perigrafes. Skepsou omos poso duskolo einai na metafereis ola ayta se mia morfh aisthitika pio plousia alla xronika polu periorismenh.
Epishs katwrime ektithesai oson afora to thema kako-Gollum/kalos-Frodo. Deixneis oti den exeis proseksei thn tainia. Einai fanero to poso o Frodo ephreazetai apo to daxtylidi, kathos kai h maxh pou dinei o Smeagol enantion tou Gollum.
Isos ta pragmata tha prepe na einai pio apla. Otan diavazeis ena vivlio ksereis tous periorismous tou kai otan vlepeis mia tainia to idio.
Antistoixa otan thes na grapseis vivlio grafeis vivlio kai to antistoixo gia tainia.
O.ti apotyponetai se xarti den einai senario.
Isos tha htan kalutera phgainontas na doume mia tainia na mhn perimenoume na thn dikasoume se sxesh me to vivlio alla na thn krinoume apla os tainia.
Etsi isos den tha peftame kai thymata aytwn twn emporikwn trik...
Πραγματικά όταν διάβασα το post του katwrimou, το πρώτο πράγμα που σκέφτηκα είναι "Οκ, δεν έχει διαβάσει το βιβλίο". Συμφωνώ απολύτως με τον Elfstone.Den exw diavasei megalyterh anakriveia oson afora ton Tolkien. Eisai sigouros oti exeis diavasei to vivlio? Den yparxoun "grizes" perioxes stous xarakthres tou Tolkien. Einai dynaton na einai kai "ligo kalos" o Sauron? Einai dynaton na einai kai "ligo kakos" o Gandalf? Pas kala? Sto Lord of the Rings toulaxiston h monh eksairesh ston katharotato diaxwrismo Kalou kai Kakou einai o Gollum. To Silmarillion exei kai xarakthres san ton Feanor pou exoun megalytero vathos.
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