auto tha mporouse na mhn htan thread. tha mporouse na exei ginei apla post sto 60s-70s psychedelic music, alla de tha ginei. efoson tous aksizei ena dikos tous topic, kai efoson den yparxei hdh, na ena.

prwta ap' ola, oi duo autoi kurioi (Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart) einai oxi mono oi megaluteres persones tou hxou twn 60s/70s, alla epishs duo ap tis megaluteres kallitexnikes idiofyies tou 20ou aiwna (nai, auto pou diavasate htan mia akraia ypokeimenikh apopsh).

o prwtos ap tous duo loipon (me dithen tyxaia seira), o Frank Zappa de mporei para na apotelei gia mena to aristo montelo ths mousikhs anazhthshs. epaikse se rythm n blues alla kai garage rock n roll bantes sthn arxh tis karieras tou, synethese kommatia klassikhs mousikhs pou emfanizontai skorpia se metepeita albums tou. olh auth th mousikh idiomorfia tou, thn dioxeteuse plhrws gia prwth fora ston prwto disko twn Mothers Of Invention, o opoios ektos apo authn thn prwtia (....) diekdikei epishs ton titlo tou prwtou concept album (sigoura prohgeitai tou sf sorrow kai tou tommy pou diekdikoun ton idio titlo pantws), alla kai enos apo ta prwta dipla LP pou kukloforhsan pote. to Freak Out (1966), htan mia miksh rythm n blues me jazz kai periergous hxhtikous peiramatismous thn opoia o Zappa edeixnei na latrevei idietera afou htan to kurio motivo pou akolouthise kai argotera (idiws stis solo douleies tou). h satirikh tou diathesh pros otidipote kai opoiondipote htan auto pou katalamvane to megalutero meros twn stixwn kai htan akoma ena xarakthristiko pou ton ksexwrize apo thn ypoloiph psyxologia ths epoxhs. me tous mothers of invention kukloforhse 5 'h 6, den eimai sigouros, albums se ena diasthma triwn xronwn (1966-1969) (!). apo auta, korufaio kat eme alla kai kata pollous allous einai to we're only in it for the money tou 1968, opou krataei mia satiriki (w ti ekplhksh!) stash pros thn olh hippie "koultoura", plus, to artwork tou diskou einai mia aristourgimatikh parwdia autou tou sgt. peppers lonely hearts club band. gia na eimaste eilikrineis, ta albums tou me tous mothers, htan mallon oi prwtes progressive rock kuklofories ever, asxeta an o metepeita orismos tou hxou apo tis vrettanikes mpantes den exei kamia sxesh me ton zappa. ta fainomenika "xazoxaroumena" tragoudia 'h oi thorivodeis perierges syntheseis tous, kruvoun tetoio mousiko plouto (synthetiko, stixourgiko, ektelestiko - apisteutoi mousikoi oloi tous -) oso liga alla pragmata.
oi mothers of invention dialithikan to 1969. o zappa den exase xrono kai tous anasxhmatise pairnontas kainourgious mousikous, kai thn idia xronia kukloforise to para poly kalo hot rats. apo ekei kai pera, einai pou xanetai h mpala. h diskografia tou einai terastia, kai h dyskolia tou na thn tsekareis oloklhrh epishs. etsi for the records, pera ap to hot rats, apo authn thn periodo ths karrieras tou exw to overnite sensation kai to one size fits all, ta opoia an kai mousika den einai para ena, sygkritika me ton protero mousiko vio tou, aploiko xioumoristiko blues rock, einai poly omorfa. apo ekei kai meta einai gnwsto oti ekane diafores synergasies kai "anedeikse" mousikous, opws p.x ton steve vai, 'h ton bozzio. pethane to 1993, apo karkino tou prostath, gyrw sta 50 tou.

o deuteros, einai moiraia o Captain Beefheart. Eksisou megalos kallitexnhs gia mena, kai mia apo tis pio xarakthristikes fwnes sto xwro tou rock. sta mesa tou 60, eftiakse thn Magic Band, melos ths opoias htan kai o TERASIOS kitharistas Ry Cooder, kai to 1967 kukloforise to safe as milk, ena psyxedeliko "boogie" blues rock mnhmeio gia mena, pou syxna isws pernaei aparathrhto se tetoies syzhthseis, profanws logw ths diaforopoihshs tou apo ton "typiko psyxedeliko hxo" ths california. meta apo auto kai ena kalo, sto idio yfos, strictly personal, erxetai to pithanotata pio "periergo" album sthn rock mousikh, to Trout Mask Replica (1969). ypo tin epivlepsh tou poly stenou tou filou apo mikrh hlikia Frank Zappa sthn paragwgh, o Beefheart ksefyge apo opoiadipote mousikh forma yphrxe 'h kai tha yparksei isws, kai dhmiourgise enan diplo disko, me diarkeia panw apo 70 lepta, pou se ena prwto akousma, de nomizw na yparksei kanenas pou de tha anarotithei "ti einai auto?". auto tha symvei kai tis 5-6 epomenes logika. par' ola auta, oso dineis xrono sto Trout Mask Replica, apokalyptetai to megaleio autou pou leme free-form music. O beefheart htan kai einai poihths. to diestrammeno mousiko tou talento, se syndiasmo me tous fainomenika asyndetous stixous kai thn monadikh tou ermhneia kanoun to trout mask replica olo kai pio "aristourgima", oso plhthainoun oi akroaseis. o,ti akolouthise, htan xarh se auton ton disko. o beefheart mazepse konta tou kapoious apo tous diasimoterous mousikous tis epoxhs, symperilamvanomenwn twn perissoterwn melwn twn mothers of invention, kai dhmiourgise ena dikaiologimeno cult status gyrw apo to onoma tou ws "ton pio avantgarde rock mousiko". den ksefyge apo to trip ths strofhs se pio psosvasimo hxo, kai evgale kai autos kapoia pio "vata" blues rock albums mesa sta 70s. apo ekei kai pera, xanw kai auton mesa stis synergasies tou (kapoies kai me ton zappa) kai tous diskous pou akolouthisan sta 80s. twra, me kapoia melh apo thn Magic Band, periodevei ana ton kosmo syxna pykna. Kai epeidh oi kallitexnikes tou anhsyxies den stamathsan pote sthn mousikh, o,ti exw diabasei apo poihmata tou kai o,ti exw dei apo pinakes zwgrafikhs tou einai aksia anaforas toulaxiston.

gia thn akribeia, kai gia thn dikaiologhsh tou apo koinou thread (peran ths filias), oi periptoseis stiss opoious exoun synergastei one way or another einai diafora albums kai twn duo, kai se koines zwntanes emfaniseis.

to point tou thread, ektos apo to oti den exw kai polla kalutera pramata na kanw apo to na sas ta prhzw 'h na deixnw pretentious, einai oti aksizei na asxolithei kaneis me autous estw kai sto elaxisto. den (thelw na) eimai parelthontolagnos oute kai pistevw pws h mousikh stamathse sta 70s 'h sta 80s 'h opou thelei o kathenas (auto eksallou mas to apodeiknyoun kai oi kuklofories twn teleutaiwn 1-2 xronwn pou einai asinithista entypwsiakes se diaforous xwrous), alla anamfisvitita iparxoun apeira pragmata sto parelthon pou aksizoun estw kai ligh apo thn prosoxh mas. kai duo apo auta einai h diskografia tou Frank Zappa kai tou Captain Beefheart.

opoiadhpote periptosi lathous 'h anakriveias parakaleitai na sygxorethei kai na diorthothei if possible, opws kai h protash kapoiou diskou pou pareleipsa na anaferw kathws profanws den ton exw akousei. this is a discussion thread after all!!~1`