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Thread: Stoxos: H fthora twn Sinidisewn

  1. #31
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    "telos,pisteuei kaneis pws sth latinikh amerikh exoun e3afanistei oi koinwnikes ta3eis?"

    Oxi, dn me ktlves... kapitalismo exoune stin latiniki ameriki alla o kosmos apofasise na dwsei ena telos sto viaio auto sistima...

    Mexiko: Kinima twn Zapatistas, dhmoi exoune eksegerthi ke exoune autonomithoi. O stratos twn Zapatistas kamia dinami dn exei mesa stous autonomous eksegermenous dimous, yperaspizontas tis eksegermenes kai autonomes perioxes.
    (http://athens.indymedia.org/topics.p...pic=6&n_lang=0)
    Venezouela: To Kommunistiko Komma einai stin eksousia ke o Tsabes me to komma tou proxoroun ston staliniko sosialismo
    Argentini: Kinima Argentinatzio. H xwra pou mas legane san protipo oikonomias tis Latinikis amerikis, opou ftasane stin dolariopiisi tou nomismatos tous, vriskete auti ti stigmi stin xeiroteri katastasi stin istoria tous. 10 daneia pollwn ekatomiriwn dn htan arketa gia na sosoun tin katastasi, mia katastasi opou oi megales idiotikes trapezes fevgoun h mia meta tin allh, kai o kosmos apofasise na pari tin katastasi sta xeria tou, me tis sostes vaseis tou Marx, Lenin, Trotsky
    Volivia: To keinima Argentinatzio eksaplothike stin geitoniki xwra tin Volivia, thn xwra pou dolofonithike o Tse Gevara, oi mazikes apergies metamorfothikan se geniki amfisvitisi ke h anatropi tou sistimatos einai to epomeno vima
    Vrazilia: Oi kivernisi Loula (apo tis xeiroteres kivernisis tis Vrazilias) einai anikani na veltiosei tin katastasi, kai o kosmos dn mpori na katapiei etsi efkola to xapi tis eksathliosis.

    Auta gia tin latiniki ameriki, pou dn tha eksegirotan ama dn pisteve ston Kommunismo (me ekseresi tous Zapatistas). Eidisis pou dn exoune thesei sta mesa Mazikis Enimerosis, h anatropi tou agapimenou tous politiko-oikonomikou sistimatos dn einai kati pou me euxaristisi tha anakinosoun.
    H pragmatikothta einai apla mia katastash toy myaloy...
    Ftiaxneis ena paralogo kosmo ki amesws exeis 4000000 paranoikoys an8rwpoys.

  2. #32
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    xm

    An yparxei periptwsh na yparksei sosialistiko systhma proypothetei kai tis swstes baseis. me alla logia, oxi, *den* tha zhleyei o enas ton allo giati den tha exoun oloi stamathsei ta skeftontai me analogo tropo. To opoio, opws fysika katalabaineis, (dystyxws, even) DEN yparxei periptwsh na ginei. Den einai mono to oti exouma mathei na skeftomaste me ena sygkekrimeno tropo, einai oti kalws h kakws ta "politeymata" pou exoun efarmosthei mexri twra einai ayta pou "douleyoun"... Opote otan milame gia *metatroph* apo kapitalistiko 'h whatever systhma se sosialistiko den einai outopia, einai *OUTOPIA*

    sta praktika twra...

    Posa xronia kai poses genies tha kanoun oi argentinoi px na ftasoun sto systhma "pou vasizetai sthn koinokthmosynh twn aga8wn kai sthn e3afanish twn ta3ewn"? Kai me ti kostos? Me aytous pou diafwnoun ti tha ginei? Posa xronia prin anoiksoun ta prwta dika tous "gkoulagk"? Mhn ksexnas oti sto endiameso ta skatwnoun oloi, otan ypeiserxetai o lampros anthrwpinos paragontas. (gkoux Stalin gkoux)

    'H mhpws tha ginei prwta mia mini-diktatoria (ousiastika) pou tha frontisei tous "exthrous ths epanastashs" kai meta otan ayth krinei oti o kairos einai swstos, tha paradwsei thn eksousia sto lao? (edw gelame, blepe anthrwpino paragonta ksana)

    (ps, ekanes to "mikro" lathaki gia to vagdath/vilosevic, koita mhpws ekanes lathos kai me tipota allo, kai an xreiastei ksanadiabaze ta posts sou)
    ...you will die like a dog for no good reason.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilias
    Auta gia tin latiniki ameriki, pou dn tha eksegirotan ama dn pisteve ston Kommunismo
    vasika diafwnw,pisteuw pws de 8a e3egeirotan ama eixan na fane
    Γιατί δε με θες κυρά μου; Επειδή είμαι ψαράς;

  4. #34
    Spider Jerusalem Deggial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rincewind2k
    xm

    An yparxei periptwsh na yparksei sosialistiko systhma proypothetei kai tis swstes baseis. me alla logia, oxi, *den* tha zhleyei o enas ton allo giati den tha exoun oloi stamathsei ta skeftontai me analogo tropo. To opoio, opws fysika katalabaineis, (dystyxws, even) DEN yparxei periptwsh na ginei.
    Συμφωνώ με τον Dragonlord και τον rincewind, το είχα συζητήσει εξάλλου και κατ'ιδίαν με τον Vasilia.

    Κάποια στοιχεία της ανθρώπινης φύσης θα μας κυνηγάν για πολύ ακόμα, όπως η δίψα για ανωτερότητα (το γεγονός πως ο άνθρωπος θέλει να είναι ξεχωριστός και ανώτερος απ'το διπλανό του, το οποίο συνήθως θεωρεί πως κρίνεται απ'την ιδιοκτησία του ή τη θέση του στην εξουσία), η ζήλεια, η εκδίκηση, κ.α.
    No trees were killed to send this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

  5. #35
    Spider Jerusalem Deggial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ang69
    Symfwnw gia ton "fasistiko" tropo skepshs kai leitourgias pollwn kommounistwn alla me enoxlei to gegonos oti tous vazete olous se ena tsouvali kai me enoxlei epishs oti den akouw pote gia tous kollhmenous pasokous 'h neodhmokrates. Anarwtiemai an auto symvainei epeidh ypoti8etai oti oi aristeroi einai "anwteroi" an8rwpoi sto myalo kapoion kai etsi enoxlei perissotero otan synantoun kollhmenous kai oi twn ypoloipwn kommatwn 8ewreitai autonohto na einai kollhmenoi, rousfetologoi klp klp 'h an yparxei kapoios allos logos gi'auto. Mh me pare3hghsete, einai genikoterh aporia auth, opws anefera parapanw egw den tautizw ton eauto mou me kapoia parata3h.
    Πολλοί νέοι φοβούνται πως δε πρόκειται να γίνουν τίποτα σπουδαίο στη ζωή τους, ή με άλλα λόγια, πως η ζωή τους θα είναι απλή, "ρουτίνα" (μεγαλώνω, σπουδάζω, παντρεύομαι, κάνω παιδιά, πεθαίνω, ξεχνιέμαι). Συγκεκριμένα, ψάχνουν όπως όλοι το νόημα της ύπαρξής τους και συνήθως στρέφονται προς οργανώσεις ή παρατάξεις με ενεργή και προκλητική δράση.

    Όσον άφορά τα αριστερά κόμματα, μια μερίδα της νεολαίας τους ανήκει σε αυτή τη κατηγορία (αφού τα αριστερά κόμματα είναι πιο "προκλητικά": διαδηλώσεις, κ.α.) και αυτός ο φανατισμός τους είναι που δίνει κακό όνομα στο σύνολο της παράταξης.

    Εκτός αυτού, κάποια αριστερές παρατάξεις (συγκεκριμένα, η ΚΝΕ στο Πολυτεχνείο, όπως και το είδα με τα μάτια μου) φανατίζει τα μέλη της παράταξής της πως όλοι είναι εναντίον της κι όλοι βρίζουν τους αριστερούς και τους κομμουνιστές.
    No trees were killed to send this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

  6. #36
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    kat arxin ksekatharizo oti: A. eimai aristeros kai sigekrimena trotskistis B. Den exo psifisei pote KKE ute prokeitai.

    Kata ta alla to na lete to KKE fasistes einai pragmatika asteio, sas parapempo sto vivlio "kala esy skotothikes noris" gia na katalavete pios einai fasistas kai pios antifasistas.

    Akoma o komunismos provlepei tin kolektivopiisi ton MESON PARAGOGIS oxi ton AGATHON opos lene ta gamimena leksika sas. Idiotiki idioktisia pano sta katanalotika agatha eksakoluthei na iparxei, apla kaneis den katexei ergostasia, ploia klp.

    Akoma ston komounismo (theoritika) o kathenas plironetai simfona me tis anages tou kai analoga me tin prosfora tou. Afto simainei oti enas giatros plironetai parapano apo enan ergati.

    Ta parapano anaferontai ston komunismo os THEORIA, oxi stin ESSD pu oi perisoteroi skeftestai.

    Kante mu ti xari kai mathete ta VASIKA tulaxiston. Meta i sizitisi peri komounismou tha exei kapoia vasi.
    Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.
    J. M. Keynes.

  7. #37
    lcsgp FIXXXER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Painless
    Wraio thread anoi3es. Elpizw na mh gurisei entelws allou kai auto.
    To 'den asxoloumai me thn politikh' opws kai to 'oloi oi politikoi malakes einai', einai h megaluterh pipa pou akouei kaneis apo to stoma kapoiou pou fobatai oti h ama8eia tou 'h h hmima8eia tou 8a ton 8esei sto peri8wrio ths suzhthshs pou epikeitai. Teleiws akuro epixeirhma. Oute kan epixeirhma dhladh.
    Otan eisai meros enos susthmatos den prepei na gnwrizeis estw pws leitourgei kai poio rolo diadramatizeis mesa se auto? ki an de gnwrizeis den prepei na ma8eis anti na kleineis t' autia sou me to mh-epixeirhma 'egw den asxoloumai me thn politikh'?
    Tora tha lega tipota, alla telos panton. Esy Katerina boreis na kauloneis eleuthera me tin politiki kai episis na theoreis oti to na asxoleisai me autin se kanei energo melos tis koinonias kai oti prosfereis kati. Ego den exo provlima na "paradexto" tin imimatheia mou gia to zitima, kathos pote den diekdisousa dafnes pantognosti se auto to thema. To na theoreis esy oti epeidi eimai meros enos sustimatos prepei na gnorizo pos leitourgei kai poio rolo diadramatizo einai kathara diki sou apopsi pou isos theoreitai sosti ki apo tin pleiopsifia. Auti i pleiopsifia einai pou eklegei tous "sostous" anthropous kai ta apotelesmata ta vlepoume kathe mera stous dromous. Apo to prisma pou vlepo ego tin pragmatikotita vlepo oti oi perissoteroi apo autous pou einai se kapoia thesi stin kuvernisi i kai oxi einai "kakoi anthropoi" kai oti autoi pou pragmatika endiaferontai gia tin proodo tis koinonias kai gia tous sunanthropous tous mono stin politiki den vriskontai. An theleis boro na sto exigiso kai me vasi tis theories tou Dawkins gia to egoistiko gonidio, alla epeidi den exo diavasei olo to vivlio akoma kai epeidi mia apopsi pou stirizetai se epistimoniko vivlio borei eukola na amfisvitithei, de gnorizo giati, den prokeitai na uparxei suzitisi. Krima, giati i mataiodoxia mou se auto to zitima den allazei kai polu duskola tha me peisei kapoios oti uparxei antikeimeniki alitheia. Einai thema pos to vlepei o kathenas... an theleis na to milisoume filosofika tote borei kai na paro meros stin suzitisi, allios pistepse me, den exo kanena provlima me to na peso sto perithorio tis suzitisis pou epikeitai.

  8. #38
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    Episis oson afora tous aristerous, tous pasokous kai tous neodimokrates, ego leo na kanoume ena protathlimataki 5x5 na doume poios tha kerdisei. Einai tragiki i omadopoiisi ton atomon se kommata. Auti einai i dimokratia....

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixxxer
    Tora tha lega tipota, alla telos panton. Esy Katerina boreis na kauloneis eleuthera me tin politiki kai episis na theoreis oti to na asxoleisai me autin se kanei energo melos tis koinonias kai oti prosfereis kati. Ego den exo provlima na "paradexto" tin imimatheia mou gia to zitima, kathos pote den diekdisousa dafnes pantognosti se auto to thema. To na theoreis esy oti epeidi eimai meros enos sustimatos prepei na gnorizo pos leitourgei kai poio rolo diadramatizo einai kathara diki sou apopsi pou isos theoreitai sosti ki apo tin pleiopsifia. Auti i pleiopsifia einai pou eklegei tous "sostous" anthropous kai ta apotelesmata ta vlepoume kathe mera stous dromous. Apo to prisma pou vlepo ego tin pragmatikotita vlepo oti oi perissoteroi apo autous pou einai se kapoia thesi stin kuvernisi i kai oxi einai "kakoi anthropoi" kai oti autoi pou pragmatika endiaferontai gia tin proodo tis koinonias kai gia tous sunanthropous tous mono stin politiki den vriskontai. An theleis boro na sto exigiso kai me vasi tis theories tou Dawkins gia to egoistiko gonidio, alla epeidi den exo diavasei olo to vivlio akoma kai epeidi mia apopsi pou stirizetai se epistimoniko vivlio borei eukola na amfisvitithei, de gnorizo giati, den prokeitai na uparxei suzitisi. Krima, giati i mataiodoxia mou se auto to zitima den allazei kai polu duskola tha me peisei kapoios oti uparxei antikeimeniki alitheia. Einai thema pos to vlepei o kathenas... an theleis na to milisoume filosofika tote borei kai na paro meros stin suzitisi, allios pistepse me, den exo kanena provlima me to na peso sto perithorio tis suzitisis pou epikeitai.
    Ok dear. Prwton den kaulwnw me thn politikh kai ennoeitai pws de 8ewrw ton eauto mou pantognwsth. Eimai ena hmima8es on, ligotero 'h perissotero apo pollous allous. Deuteron ennoeitai pws den pisteuw oti h enasxolhsh h dikh mou 'h kapoiou allou se paromoia fash 8a allaze ton kosmo. Aplws gia mena einai arketa pio ugies to na exeis epignwsh tou pws leitourgoun ta pragmata gurw sou para na kleineis ta matia 8ewrwntas ta panta mataia kai katalhgontas sto oti esu den mporeis na kaneis kati gi' auto. 8a mou peis, nai mwrh malakismenh, ki esu ti mporeis na kaneis dhladh? Kai 8a sou apanthsw oti nai men den mporw na kanw kati apo th 8esh sthn opoia eimai (?) omws me xaropoiei kai mono pou blepw na suzhtame tetoia pragmata edw mesa. Apokomizeis kati apo ola.
    Btw, apo th stigmh pou kaneis post apantwntas se auto pou lew kai antikrouontas to, suzhtas. Kai mh mou th les giati 8a pw se olous ti froulhs eisai
    Who knows where the days go
    And would you ever want them back

  10. #40
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    Vasika to thema kai to kwluma pou trwne oloi, den prepei na einai to "giati den asxolhse me thn politikh " giati kaka ta psemata polloi exoun pikrathei, apogohteutei , sixathei tous perissoterous kai epeidh vlepoune panta to xeirotero na kseprovalei kathe fora sto proskhnio, lene " ai gamithite oloi, den tha katsw na paiksw to paixnidi sas " kai sthn telikh h antidrash auth einai polu fusiologikh. Vevaia tha mporouse kanpoios na upothesei oti telika olo auto to susthma aposkopei ousiastika se auto: sto na mhn summetexoun oi polloi sthn politikh, alla oi ligoi...kai ftanoume sto ousiwdes kai terastio provlhma shmera, oti h pleiopshfia DEN asxolite me ta koina...kai oxi mono otan einai provlhma emmeso alla kai otan ton thigei amesa...giati kaka ta psemata, eimaste volemenoi arketa pou exoume valei ton kolo mas katw kai leme " e , entaksei mwre, tha perasei " h " ela twra mwre, kau aurio mera einai " . Alla profanws auto pou ginete einai na mas megalwnei h kwlotrupida apo to gamisi, me to sumpathio dld.

    Ps. Ta parapanw safws kai den anaferonte se olous, opote as mhn to parei kapoios patriwtika.
    Assumptions:

    1. Mathematics is the language of nature
    2. Everything around is can be represented and understood by numbers
    3. If you graph the numbers of any system, patterns emerge

    Evidence:

    1. The cycling of disease epidemics
    2. The wax and wan of caribou populations
    3. Sunspot cycles
    4. The rise and fall of the Nile River

  11. #41
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    Default Kapies paratirisis...

    Me ton Louka an kai diafonw se polla zitimata, tha simfonisw me to teleuteo tou post, alla tha kanw mia diefkrinisi gia to KKE... allo to KKE kai allo ta melh tou (opws allo to NAR px kai allo oi Narites, allo ta ML kai allo te melh tou, allo to Foroum kai allo autoi pou simetexoune sto foroum ke paei legontas)... to KKE einai fasistiko ypo mia enia, ta melh tou oxi... skepsou Louka ti egine me tin sigkivernisi me tin ND, opou ta melh tou diafonousan kai malista (ama dn kanw lathos) h pliopsifia mesa stin kentriki epitropi, kai oloi oi diafonountes dioxtikan apo to komma (kai dimiourgithike to NAR, enw alla melh pigane sto synaspismo). Ta idia eginan epi Xroutsof me tis diokseis zaxariadikwn, kai episis min ksexname oti o Zaxariadis eksoristike stin siviria APO TO KKE. Malista h mania tou KKE na vriski pantou provokatores (arwstia pou kolise apo ton "atsalenio") exei akoma pio tragika simia. Sto vivlio tou germanoevraiou proin anarxikou Kon Mpentit "aristerismos to farmako gia tin gerontiki arwstia tou kommunismou" anaferei mia periptosi stin Galia opou melos tou dioxtike epidi anaferthike sthn 4h Diethni san "4h diethni" kai oxi san trotskistofasistes/provokatores opws htan o sinithismenos tropos. Ta idia exoune ksanagini para polles fores, thatane apla xazo na kathisw na anaferw kathe periptosi ksexorista. Ta idia pragmata kai gia tin SE, gnwsta ta peri dikes tis mosxas, gkoulagk klp klp. Ama to leme omws fasistiko to vazoume stin idia mira me ton Xitler, opote einai megalo lathos.

    Ta idia eginan ke stin Xili tou Alliente otan oi ergates katalavane ta ergostasia ke doulepsan monoi tous tis mixanes, o Alliente ta xaraktiriste provokatsia ke estile tin astinomia gia na tous stamatisi.

    ------
    An yparxei periptwsh na yparksei sosialistiko systhma proypothetei kai tis swstes baseis. me alla logia, oxi, *den* tha zhleyei o enas ton allo giati den tha exoun oloi stamathsei ta skeftontai me analogo tropo.
    ------

    Ksexnate tin anthropini fisi opws tropopiite se kathe istoriki periodo. O anthropos se kathe politiko-oikonomiko sistima einai diaforetikos (H arxousa taksi epivali thn ideologia tis stis katapiesmenes). Opote auto pou lete ke esi ke o Deggial einai epistimonika lathos.

    Opws leei o Froyd (pragmata pou simfonoune me ton Marx, kai einai kalo pistevw na tonizoume tin tautisi apopsewn autwn twn dio) h psixiki sinthesi tou anthropou xwrizete sto asinidito (Int) to egw, ke to sinidito (yper-egw). To Int, einai tmima tis psixikis siskevis opou loufazoun oles oi protogwnes parormisis mas, enw to yperegw einai to yperidealistiko tmhma tis psixosinthesis mas, to yperapaititiko, to timwritiko, to anoixtirmono, h enswmatwsh twn apagoreutikwn austhrwn gone'i'kwn arxwn, eksousiwn.O politismos dn mporei na kiriarxisi panw sta enstikta, ta enstikta vasilevoun sta vathi tis anthrwpinhs psyxhs. To yperegw omws einai apotelesma tou protses tou politismou mas, kai epireazete apo auton. Etsi panta tha yparxi h anagki gia fagito, gia sex kai genikotera prospathia gia idonh, alla h anthropini simperifora dn paramenei statheri apo epoxi se epoxi. O Marx leei akrivos ta idia pragmata alla me pio aplo tropo:

    O marx diaforopii tis parormisis se statheres kai sxetikes parormisis. Oi statheres parormhseis "yparxoun katwn apo oles tis peristaseis, kai mporoun na metatrapoun stis koinwnikes sunthikes mono se oti afora ti morfh kai thn dieuthinsi", enw gia tis sxetikes parormisis "ofeiloun thn proeleush tous mono se orismenous tipous koinonikis organwshs". O marx theorei me liga logia pws to sex kai h peina ypagonte stin katigoria twn statherwn parormisewn, enw h filargiria einai sxetiki parormisi. Oi "sxetikes parormisis dn apoteloun anapospasto meros tis anthropinis fisis alla ofeiloun tin proeleusi tous se orismenes koinonikes domes kai orismenes sinthikes paragwghs kai katanalwshs".

    O Marx diaxorizi tis statheres parormisis se diakrisi apo tin anthropini piotita tous:

    "to fagito, to poto, kai h teknopoihsh einai, fisika kai autes, authentikes anthropines leitourgies. Theoroumenes omws afhrhmena, ksexwra apo to perivalon twn allwn anthropinwn drastiriotitwn, kai metatrepomenes se telikous kai monadikous skopous, einai zwwdeis lhtourgies" (auta gia to Int, pragmata paromia me ta logia tou Froyd)"

    Gia to SEK: Oxi kanena allo lathos dn exw kanei, ama thelete rotiste sta panepistimia tous Sekites, dn ta arnounte (aplos ta dikeologun me ilithio tropo). Einai ta melh tis Protovoulias Genova 2001 (einai ikanoi na exoune perasi 40 xronia ke akoma Protov. Genova 2001 na legonte )

    Gia tin Argentini twra: to Partito Ombrero pou igite tou Argentinatzio, opws ke ola ta autoapokaloumena trotskistika (giati kapia dn einai) exoune katadikasi ta Gkoulagk, kai tis energies tou tipou "opios dn einai mazi mas einai exthros mas", opote mporw na esthanome perisotero asfalis gia tin Argentini alla ke tin Volivia/Brazilia. To megalo stixima einai na kanoume auta pou leme praksi, auto h istoria tha to diksei. Oso gia to poses genees tha pari gia na ftasoume stin Kommunistiki koinwnia tis apantisis sou tha tis paris apo tin "Diarki epanastasi" tou Trotsky (se antithesi me tis apopsis tou Stalinismou, opou meta tin epanastasi epistrefoume se reformismo). Alloste o marx simfonei mazi tu:

    "...όταν ξεκαθαρίσουν στον εαυτό τους τα ταξικά τους συμφέροντα, όταν πάρουν την αυτοτελή κομματική τους θέση όσο μπορεί πιο γρήγορα, όταν δεν παρασυρθούν ούτε στιγμή από τα υποκριτικά λόγια των δημοκρατών μικροαστών και όταν δεν ξεφύγουν από το δρόμο της ανεξάρτητης οργάνωσης του κόμματος του προλεταριάτου. Η πολεμική τους κραυγή πρέπει να είναι: ΔΙΑΡΚΗΣ ΕΠΑΝΑΣΤΑΣΗ"
    H pragmatikothta einai apla mia katastash toy myaloy...
    Ftiaxneis ena paralogo kosmo ki amesws exeis 4000000 paranoikoys an8rwpoys.

  12. #42
    antimusic rincewind2k's Avatar
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    prin diabasw olo to post tou vasilia eida ena quote mou kai exw kanei megalh malakia, grafw

    "*den* tha zhleyei o enas ton allo giati den tha exoun oloi stamathsei ta skeftontai me analogo tropo"

    enw profanws (?) ennow oti

    "*den* tha zhleyoun giati *tha* exoun stamathsei na skeftontai me ayton ton tropo"

    basika opws to egrapsa prwta den bgazei kai poly nohma, opote elpizw na katalabate oti ennow to deytero

    sorry kai pali, m'aresei pou thn eipa sto vasilia na ksanadiabazei ta posts tou...
    ...you will die like a dog for no good reason.

  13. #43
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    "Πολλοί νέοι φοβούνται πως δε πρόκειται να γίνουν τίποτα σπουδαίο στη ζωή τους, ή με άλλα λόγια, πως η ζωή τους θα είναι απλή, "ρουτίνα" (μεγαλώνω, σπουδάζω, παντρεύομαι, κάνω παιδιά, πεθαίνω, ξεχνιέμαι). Συγκεκριμένα, ψάχνουν όπως όλοι το νόημα της ύπαρξής τους και συνήθως στρέφονται προς οργανώσεις ή παρατάξεις με ενεργή και προκλητική δράση"

    AUTO einai akrivos auto pou lene ta MME gia tous aristerous, diladi oti einai "atoma pou dn mporoun na anteksoune tin pragmatikotita kai katafevgoune se outopistikes liseis". Auto einai diastrevlotiko oso einai ke oti o Hlios einai prasinos, aferontas pliros ta keimena tou Marx kai twn Marxistwn. Deggial diavase to "Kefaleo" tou Marx an kai exoune allaksi merika pragmata apo tote (einai 3 tomoi, to ena tou Marx ke ta alla 2 tou Engels apo tis simioseis tou Marx... mporis na ta vreis dwrean sto http://www.marxists.org ama exeis oreksi na ta diavasis sta agglika giati to elliniko section dn exei polla), kai tha deis pws dn milame gia adinamies, ke oute rixnoume ston kapitalismo apo "ithika" provlimata.

    rincewind2k: Me tin diorthosi pou ekanes allazis twra olo to keimeno mou, ousiastika tograpsa tsampa PP Simfoni o Deggial ke o Dragonlord omws opote pali exei aksia...
    H pragmatikothta einai apla mia katastash toy myaloy...
    Ftiaxneis ena paralogo kosmo ki amesws exeis 4000000 paranoikoys an8rwpoys.

  14. #44
    antimusic rincewind2k's Avatar
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    katse giati ta kana skata

    An yparxei periptwsh na yparksei sosialistiko systhma proypothetei kai tis swstes baseis. me alla logia, oxi, *den* tha zhleyei o enas ton allo giati (den) tha exoun oloi stamathsei ta skeftontai me analogo tropo. To opoio, opws fysika katalabaineis, (dystyxws, even) DEN yparxei periptwsh na ginei. Den einai mono to oti exouma mathei na skeftomaste me ena sygkekrimeno tropo, einai oti kalws h kakws ta "politeymata" pou exoun efarmosthei mexri twra einai ayta pou "douleyoun"... Opote otan milame gia *metatroph* apo kapitalistiko 'h whatever systhma se sosialistiko den einai outopia, einai *OUTOPIA*
    Ennow oti se enan idaniko kosmo (ston opoio o kommounismos tha mporouse na ginei praksh), h ennoia "zhleia" den tha yphrxe, koinws den tha mas endiefere kai poly an o diplanos exei pio polla, giati emeis tha hmaste eytyxismenoi me ayta pou exoume, pou tha htan ayta pou xreiazomaste gia na epibiwsoume (me thn eyreia ennoia).

    Ayth einai h omorfh thewria.

    H pragmatikothta wstoso einai liiiigo diaforetikh. Gia thn katastrofikh kai aytokatastrofikh anthrwpinh symperifora den ftaiei o kapitalismos px, afou o anthrwpos skotwne (opws kai etrwge kai epine kai teknopoiouse) enstiktwdws poly prin thn "efeyresh" twn koinwniwn.

    Extise, loipon, th domh ths koinwnias tou (koinwnia pou dhmiourgithike apo anagkh kai adynamia, oxi apo agaph pros ton plhsion) epanw se ayta ta protypa/enstikta (akoma ki an merika pragmata eginan siga siga paranoma, xarin ths armonikoterhs symbiwshs). En oligois, den ftiaxnei to koinwnikopolitiko systhma ton anthrwpo, o anthrwpos ftiaxnei to systhma (milame gia tis prwtes koinwnies, etsi?).

    Fast Forward sth shmerinh epoxh, ta koinwnikopolitika systhmata pou yparxoun kai exoun apodeixtei oti douleyoun einai ousiastika ekselikseis ekeinwn twn systhmatwn. O Anthrwpos, DEN exei apallaxtei apo tis prwtogones ormes kai ta prwima enstikta, afou ayta synthrountai stis koinwnies me ton ena 'h ton allo tropo, oso ki an ayta exoun "metallaxthei" ana tous aiwnes.

    Opws katalabaineis loipon, exoume ftasei se ena adieksodo oson afora thn "ekseliksh", an theleis, tou anthrwpou, o opoios den mporei na "ksefygei" apo ayta ta enstikta, ara kai den mporei na skeftei/praksei alliws, opote telika den mporei na yparksei se mia koinwnia me diaforetikh domh apo aythn pou exei synithisei kai pou en telei XREIAZETAI, opws exoun katanthsei ta pragmata.

    Gi ayto anaferw parapanw ton "lampro anthrwpino paragonta" san thn aitia pou ta sosialistika systhmata diabrwthikan kai telika katerreysan. Einai, kata th gnwmh mou poly "mikros" akoma o anthrwpos gia na idrysei kai na yparksei mesa se pragmatika sosialistikes koinwnies, pragma pou, telika, tis kathista outopies.

    isws me ton human2.0 kati na ginei (nasum credit)

    ayta

    twra an ta ksekatharisa 'h an ta mperdepsa perissotero...
    ...you will die like a dog for no good reason.

  15. #45
    Spider Jerusalem Deggial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilias
    "Πολλοί νέοι φοβούνται πως δε πρόκειται να γίνουν τίποτα σπουδαίο στη ζωή τους, ή με άλλα λόγια, πως η ζωή τους θα είναι απλή, "ρουτίνα" (μεγαλώνω, σπουδάζω, παντρεύομαι, κάνω παιδιά, πεθαίνω, ξεχνιέμαι). Συγκεκριμένα, ψάχνουν όπως όλοι το νόημα της ύπαρξής τους και συνήθως στρέφονται προς οργανώσεις ή παρατάξεις με ενεργή και προκλητική δράση"

    AUTO einai akrivos auto pou lene ta MME gia tous aristerous, diladi oti einai "atoma pou dn mporoun na anteksoune tin pragmatikotita kai katafevgoune se outopistikes liseis".
    Σαφώς δεν είπα αυτό. Αφενός είπα πως πηγαίνουν άτομα που τυφλά θα ακολουθούσαν οποιαδήποτε θεωρία τους κάνει να νιώθουν χρήσιμοι (άρα ούτε θέλουν να ξεφύγουν απ'τη πραγματικότητα ούτε αφορά ουτοπιστικές λύσεις) και φανατίζονται. Όπως αναφέρθηκε προηγουμένως, τα ΜΜΕ φροντίζουν να φαίνεται η αριστερά ως "ακραία" (ενώ στη πραγματικότητα δεν είναι).

    Αφετέρου, ανέφερα πως αυτή είναι μια (μικρή) μερίδα των αριστερών που δίνει κακό όνομα στους υπόλοιπους. Δεν είπα πως οι αριστεροί είναι έτσι.
    No trees were killed to send this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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